But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? And with what body do they come?

-1 Corinthians 15:35

o one can just drop in on Death Row Records CEO Marion „Suge“ Knight Jr. without feeling the magnitude of his reputation. No one.

On a cool Southern California evening, I arrive to see him at the Can-Am Building in Tarzana, a 30-minute drive north of Los Angeles. I’m greeted by a tall, stone-faced, caramel-colored man with a walkie-talkie and a black windbreaker inscribed SECURITY. Rather than letting me into the tiny lobby area, he tells me to wait outside while he alerts someone within the single-story edifice that Suge has a visitor.

The budding legend surrounding 30-year-old Suge Knight is such that damn near everyone-from fellow journalists to former and current Death Row employees all the way to a shoeshine man in West L.A.-warned me that Suge was „the wrong nigga to fuck with.“ The mere mention of his name was enough to cause some of the most powerful people in the music business to whisper, change the subject, or beg to be quoted off the record.

This is an especially hectic time for Knight and Death Row, whose „keepin‘ it real“ mentality has the industry all shook up. Tha Dogg Pound’s controversial debut album, Dogg Food-the breaking point in the relationship between Time Warner and Interscope Records, Death Row’s distributor-was finally released last Halloween and shot to No. 1 on the pop charts. As Snoop Doggy Dogg faced a murder charge in L.A., Knight secured a $1.4 million bond to bail Tupac Shakur out of prison in October and signed him up (both to Death Row Records and Knight’s management arm). Shakur has been working feverishly on his Death Row debut-a double CD all written since Shakur’s release, titled All Eyes on Me (28 cuts including a duet with Snoop called „Two of America’s Most Wanted“)-partly because a return to prison still looms, pending appeals.

Meanwhile, work continues on projects for singers Danny Boy and Nate Dogg, and rappers the Lady of Rage, Jewell, Sam Sneed, and others yet unheard of-to say nothing of the artists for whom Knight now „consults,“ including Mary J. Blige, Jodeci, and DJ Quik. Death Row is also backing record labels headed by Snoop (Doggystyle Records) and Tha Dogg Pound (Gotta Get Somewhere Records). Plus there’s Knight’s new Club 662 in Las Vegas and the vision of Dr. Dre directing movies for Death Row Films.

All these things are on my mind as I’m being frisked in the lobby of the Can-Am Building, now the permanent studio for Death Row, where talents as diverse as Bobby Brown, Harry Belafonte, and Barry Manilow once recorded. Around-the-clock protection is provided by a group of off-duty black police officers who work in Los Angeles. While Death Row isn’t the group’s only client, it’s the biggest. According to the guard at the reception desk, „We’re better security because we’re all licensed to carry guns-anywhere.„

Another tall, muscular black man escorts me back to Suge’s office-the building also contains two state-of-the-art studios, a gym, and a space where Suge often sleeps. The man opens the door, and I’m struck by two things: a big, light brown German shepherd rolling on the floor, and the fact that virtually everything in the room-the carpet, the cabinets, the sofa and matching chairs-is a striking blood red. I look at my escort; he reads my facial expression and says nonchalantly, „That’s Damu. He won’t bother you. He’s only trained to kill on command.“ On that note, I step gingerly into Suge Knight’s office.

Knight’s imprint is all over: from the sleek stereo system to the air conditioner (set way too cold) to the large-screen TV that doubles as an all-seeing security monitor. Right in front of his big wooden desk, outlined in white on the red carpet, is the Death Row Records logo: a man strapped to an electric chair with a sack over his head. I was told by another journalist that no one steps on the logo. No one.

At six foot four, 315 pounds, sporting a close-cropped haircut and a neatly trimmed beard, Knight strikes a towering pose. When he sits down to face me, with Damu (Swahili for „blood„) now lying by his feet, you can’t help but notice the huge biceps itching to bust through his red-and-black-striped shirt. Muscle, say both his admirers and detractors, is the name of Knight’s game. Speaking with a syrupy drawl, Suge (as in „sugar„) details the original mission of Death Row Records.

„First thing to do was to establish an organization, not just no record company,“ he says, his eyes looking straight into mine. „I knew the difference between having a record company and having a production company and a logo. First goal was to own our masters. Without your master tapes you ain’t got shit, period.“

As Knight speaks of Dr. Dre’s The Chronic, which laid the foundation for Death Row in 1992, and Snoop’s solo debut, Doggystyle, which proved that Death Row was more than just a vanity label, I can’t help but notice how utterly simple and ghetto-in the sense that the underclass has always done what it takes to survive-his logic is. Ain’t no complicated equations or middle-class maneuvers here, just, according to Knight, people getting what they deserve. And never forgetting where they come from.

„We called it Death Row ‚cause most everybody had been involved with the law,“ Knight explains. „A majority of our people was parolees or incarcerated-it’s no joke. We got people really was on death row and still is.“ Indeed, there is no way to truly comprehend the incredible success of Death Row Records-its estimated worth now tops $100 million-without first understanding the conditions that created the rap game in the first place: few legal economic paths in America’s inner cities, stunted educational opportunities, a pervasive sense of alienation among young black males, black folks‘ age-old need to create music, and a typically American hunger for money and power.

The Hip Hop Nation is no different than any other segment of this society in its desire to live the American dream. Hip hop, for better or for worse, has been this generation’s most prominent means for making good on the long-lost promises of the civil rights movement. However, the big question is, Where does this pull-yourself-up-by-your-bootstraps economic nationalism end and the high drama that hovers over Death Row Records begin?

The music industry thrives on rumors, and Death Row is always grist for the gossip mill. Stories run the gamut from Knight and his boys using metal pipes in persuading the late Eazy-E to release Dr. Dre from Ruthless Records, to former Uptown CEO Andre Harrell being strong-armed into restructuring Mary J. Blige’s and Jodeci’s contracts, to an alleged beef between Knight and Bad Boy Entertainment CEO Sean „Puffy“ Combs, which some trace to the shooting death of one of Knight’s close friends last October.

That incident, some say, has fueled a growing East Coast vs. West Coast battle, and-so go the rumors-has led to reported threats on Combs’s life. „I heard there was a contract out on my life,“ says Combs. „Why do they have so much hatred for me? I ask myself that question every day. I’m ready for them to leave me alone, man.“

In an interview in last April’s VIBE, Shakur suggested that Combs, the Notorious B.I.G., Shakur’s longtime friend Randy „Stretch“ Walker, and others behaved suspiciously immediately following Shakur’s shooting in New York on November 30, 1994. Exactly one year to the day after Shakur’s shooting, Walker was murdered execution-style in Queens. (When contacted by phone after the murder, Shakur offered no comment.)

The drama had already intensified when Knight bailed Shakur out last October and brought him to Death Row. Shakur’s „relentless“ new double album for Death Row includes a track featuring Faith-one of Combs’s artists and Biggie Smalls’s wife-titled „Wonder Why They Call You Bitch.“ According to one source, „Tupac and Faith are now very, very close.“ („Me and Faith don’t have no problems,“ says Shakur. When asked about their relationship beyond the studio, he replies, „I ain’t gonna answer that shit, man. You know I don’t kiss and tell.“) While Knight has said repeatedly that he wants Death Row to be „the Motown of the ’90s,“ the label’s history is unfolding more like an in-your-face Martin Scorsese film than Berry Gordy’s charm school approach.

I ask Knight about all the rumors. He shifts his weight in his chair and bristles: „When you become the best, it’s more rumors, it’s more people want to stop you, ‚cause everybody want to be No. 1.“

„Can we talk about any of these alleged incidents?„

„Say what you want to say.„

I then recount my understanding of the Andre Harrell story as Knight stares at me. Before long, he’s flipped the script, asking me what I would do if I wasn’t receiving a fair deal.

„You should get the best deal you can get in this business,“ I respond.

Knight edges forward in his chair, proud he got me to agree. „See, people got this business mixed up,“ he says. „They want to go and talk about a person who fixin‘ to come and help you. They don’t say nothin‘ about the motherfucker who beatin‘ people out they money. When you stand up for right, people should tip they hat to you and keep movin‘, and mind they own business.“

Not totally satisfied with Knight’s response, I wonder why rappers the D.O.C. and RBX are no longer with Death Row Records, and why both have gone on record, literally, complaining of not being paid. But Knight’s already defensive, and I don’t want to get tossed out before I get to bring up other, more important questions.

„What about the methods you used to get Harrell to renegotiate those contracts?“ I ask.

„It’s like this. Was you there?„

„Nah.“ „Then there’s nothin‘ to talk about.“ .

What Knight will talk about is how important it is for him and Death Row to stay rooted in the streets. The youngest of three children and a proud native of working-class Compton (where he still keeps a house), Knight was a star defensive lineman in high school and at the University of Nevada at Las Vegas before entering the music business in the late 1980s. It’s not clear how he got into the game-some say he was the D.O.C.’s bodyguard during the N.W.A days, while Knight maintains he started a music publishing business that earned a small fortune off Vanilla Ice’s smash 1990 debut. Whatever the case, few individuals have as much drive as Knight: „Ghetto politics teaches you how to win and really be hungry. I never been the one who wanted to work with nobody. ‚Cause I think if a motherfucker get you a paycheck-listen to how it sound, paycheck, like they paying you to stay in check. Can’t nobody keep me in check.„

Time Warner couldn’t. It bowed to political pressure and announced it was selling its 50 percent interest in Death Row’s profitable distributor, Interscope Records. Self-appointed gangsta rap watchdog C. DeLores Tucker couldn’t. She may have helped get Interscope dropped, but she had no effect on Death Row’s progress. In fact, at one point she met with Knight to get a piece of the action. He turned her down.

Despite all the community outreach Suge Knight does-the lavish Mother’s Day dinners for single mothers, the turkey giveaways at Thanksgiving, the Christmas toy giveaways for Compton children-he has to know he puts fear in some hearts, that his I-don’t-give-a-fuck persona unfurls itself long before people ever meet him in the flesh. Hip hop has always been about being straight-up, about being skeptical of the motives of the generation ahead of us, about creating shields (or myths) to protect our world from outsiders-Bob Dole, William Bennett, C. DeLores Tucker-who seek to come in and dominate us. With four-year-old Death Row Records as his sword and an aura Al Pacino’s Scarface would be proud of, Suge Knight epitomizes that mind-set-but at what cost?

Listen to Knight summarize his modus operandi: „Black executives, they get invited to the golf tournaments. I don’t give a fuck about all that. I’m not gonna play golf with you. When you playin‘ golf, I’ma be in the studio. While you trying to eat dinner with the other executives in the business, I’ma be havin‘ dinner with my family, which is the artists on the label.“ He pauses to emphasize his point. „Without your talent, you ain’t shit.„

Talent is something 30-year-old Grammy winner Dr. Dre, né Andre Young, has in abundance. On a different day in the Can-Am Building’s studio A, hip hop’s most sought-after producer is waiting for Tupac to show up and continue work on his new album. The Compton-born cofounder (with Knight) and president of Death Row, Dr. Dre has sold 15 million records in the past decade. Six foot one, 200-plus pounds, Dre wears a beige Fila outfit, brown Timberlands, and a gold Rolex saturated with diamonds. If that isn’t enough, a chunk of diamond and gold glitters on one of his fingers. Those adornments aside, I’m surprised how soft-spoken and shy the baby-faced Dr. Dre is in person, his eyes avoiding mine for much of the interview. To break the ice, I ask about the World Class Wreckin‘ Cru, his first group back in the early 1980s.

„Wreckin‘ Cru was a DJ crew. They used to call it that because it was the guys that came in after the party was over and broke down the equipment,“ Dre says, leaning closer to my tape recorder as he warms to the topic.

„We eventually made a record, and we had the costumes on and what have you. Back then, everybody had their little getups, you know, like SoulSonic Force, UTFO.“ Dre laughs at the memory. „That shit haunted me, but you know, I ain’t ashamed of my past.“

There was a lot of people passing through the studio that night, and the word definitely got out that Tupac was on his way. We were waiting on Tupac for hours. Next thing I know, about 12:00, Tupac comes off the elevator. It looked like he just got in a scuffle. Then I seen the blood on his head. He was pacing back and forth, hysterically, talking about „Call the police, call the police.“ Then he looked at me and said, „You the only one who knew that I was coming. You must’ve set me up.“ I was, like, „Yo, you buggin‘, Tupac. C’mere and talk to me.“ He kept pacing back and forth, and saying, „Call the police.“ He never said to call the ambulance.

In the paper he said he’d been set up, that he knew the assailants and blazey-boom. But everybody in the industry knew that he came off the elevator saying, „You set me up.“ I thought me and him was some kind of friends. But I felt maybe this was a strategy for him to get around his case. And maybe I shouldn’t hold him accountable for trying that strategy.

But after the VIBE interview, I seen that this nigga is using the media to get his point across and look like he had the upper hand. He made it seem like niggas had a plot against him. Like he was so important that street niggas wanted to kill him, industry niggas wanted to kill him. He’s believing his rap. He’s believing the movie scripts that he’s played. Where he went wrong was when he tried to go to the street, and when it came down to the test, he did not hold up. He’s gonna assassinate people’s character, saying that niggas was crying and falling to the floor like a sack of potatoes. It just goes to show that the real coward and the real nigga that was crying was Tupac.

Can we talk about the rape case at all?

Okay. Nigel and Trevor took me to Nell’s. When we got there, I was immediately impressed, because it was different than any club I’d been in. It wasn’t crowded, there was lots of space, there were beautiful women there. I was meeting Ronnie Lott from the New York Jets and Derrick Coleman from the Nets. They were coming up to me, like, „Pac, we’re proud of you.“ I felt so tall that night, because they were people’s heroes and they saying I was their hero. I felt above and beyond, like I was glowing.

Soon as she finished that-just enough to get me solid, rock-hard-we got off the dance floor. I told Nigel, „I’ve got to get out of here. I’m about to take her to the hotel. I’ll see you all later.“ Nigel was, like, „No, no, no. I’m going to take you back.“ We drive to the hotel. We go upstairs and have sex, real quick. As soon as I came, that was it. I was tired, I was drunk, I knew I had to get up early in the morning, so I was, like, „What are you going to do? You can spend the night or you can leave.“ She left me her number, and everything was cool. Nigel was spending the night in my room all these nights. When he found out she sucked my dick on the floor and we had sex, he and Trevor were livid! Trevor is a big freak; he was going crazy. All he kept asking me was, „D-d-did you fuck in the ass?“ He was listening to every single detail. I thought, This is just some guy shit, it’s all good.

What happened on the night of the alleged rape?

We had a show to do in New Jersey at Club 88. This dude said, „I’ll be there with a limo to pick you up at midnight.“ We went shopping, we got dressed up, we were all ready. Nigel was saying, „Why don’t you give her a call?“ So we were all sitting in the hotel, drinking. I’m waiting for the show, and Nigel’s, like, „I called her. I mean, she called me, and she’s on her way.“ But I wasn’t thinking about her no second time. We were watching TV when the phone rings, and she’s downstairs. Nigel gave Man-man, my manager, some money to pay for the cab, and I was, like, „Let that bitch pay for her own cab.“ She came upstairs looking all nice, dressed all provocative and shit, like she was ready for a prom date.

When I went to the other suite, Man-man told me that Talibah, my publicist at the time, had been there for a while and was waiting in the bedroom of that suite. I went to see Talibah and we talked about what she had been doing during the day, then I went and laid down on the couch and went to sleep. When I woke up, Nigel was standing over me going, „Pac, Pac,“ and all the lights was on in both rooms. The whole mood had changed, you know what I’m saying? I felt like I was drugged. I didn’t know how much time had passed. So when I woke up, it was, like, „You’re going to the police, you’re going to the police.“ Nigel walks out the room, comes back with the girl. Her clothes is on; ain’t nothing tore. She just upset, crying hysterically. „Why you let them do this to me?“ She’s not making sense. „I came to see you. You let them do this to me.“ I’m, like, „I don’t got time for this shit right here. You got to chill out with that shit. Stop yelling at me and looking at me all crazy.“ She said, „This not the last time you’re going to hear from me,“ and slammed the door. And Nigel goes, „Don’t worry about it, Pac, don’t worry. I’ll handle it. She just tripping.“ I asked him what happened, and he was, like, „Too many niggas.“ You know, I ain’t even tripping no more, you know? Niggas start going downstairs, but nobody was coming back upstairs. I’m sitting upstairs smoking weed, like, Where the fuck is everybody at? Then I get a call from Talibah from the lobby saying, „The police is down here.“

And that’s what landed you in jail. But you’re saying that you never did anything?

Never did nothing. Only thing I saw was all three of them in there and that nigga talking about how fat her ass was. I got up, because the nigga sounded sick. I don’t know if she’s with these niggas, or if she’s mad at me for not protecting her. But I know I feel ashamed-because I wanted to be accepted and because I didn’t want no harm done to me-I didn’t say nothing.

How did you feel about women during the trial, and how do you feel about women now?

When the charge first came up, I hated black women. I felt like I put my life on the line. At the time I made „Keep Ya Head Up,“ nobody had no songs about black women. I put out „Keep Ya Head Up“ from the bottom of my heart. It was real, and they didn’t defend it. I felt like it should have been women all over the country talking about, „Tupac couldn’t have did that.“ And people was actually asking me, „Did you do it?“

Then, going to trial, I started seeing the black women that was helping me. Now I’ve got a brand-new vision of them, because in here, it’s mostly black female guards. They don’t give me no extra favors, but they treat me with human respect. They’re telling me, „When you get out of here, you gotta change.“ They be putting me on the phone with they kids. You know what I’m saying? They just give me love.

What’s going to happen if you have to serve time?

If it happens, I got to serve it like a trooper. Of course, my heart will be broke. I be torn apart, but I have to serve it like a trooper.

I understand you recently completed a new album.

Rapping…I don’t even got the thrill to rap no more. I mean, in here I don’t even remember my lyrics.

But you’re putting out the album, right?

Yeah. It’s called Me Against the World. So that is my truth. That’s my best album yet. And because I already laid it down, I can be free. When you do rap albums, you got to train yourself. You got to constantly be in character. You used to see rappers talking all that hard shit, and then you see them in suits and shit at the American Music Awards. I didn’t want to be that type of nigga. I wanted to keep it real, and that’s what I thought I was doing. But now that shit is dead. That Thug Life shit…;I did it, I put in my work, I laid it down. But now that shit is dead.

All I know is that Money was supposed to come and he agreed to do the song with me. When I got there, it was like a fucking party. I ain’t really keen on a whole bunch of people in the studio while I’m working. I don’t know how, but everybody must have known this cat was comin‘.
Then the elevator goes ding. Money gets off the elevator and starts yelling, „Ah! I got shot. Nigga set me up. Muthafucka shot me; they shot Tupac.“ The back of his head was busted open and it was bleeding all down his face. He caught everybody by surprise. For like only a split second, until the shock wore off, nobody really wanted to fuck with him because he was jumping around like an animal.

Reading the interview and being there, nothing made sense. He said Andre didn’t want to look at him, Puffy didn’t want to look at him. He’s trying to state that nobody paid him any mind? Come on, man. I don’t know this dude from a hole in the wall, and I was trying to help him. He said, „Little Shawn was crying uncontrollably.“ You sound like an idiot saying some dumb shit like that. When I was helping him, he didn’t say, „You cryin‘ like a bitch. Get away from me.“ I was surprised that Money even had the audacity to go there. I’ve punched a lot of people in their mouth behind that „Little Shawn was cryin‘ “ shit.

Then I hear everybody is saying that I had something to do with it. And niggas on the West Coast are saying, „Yo, tell that nigga Little Shawn to be careful. Cause niggas on the West Coast is calling his name.“ I don’t need that in my life. A lot of people go through problems with the law, and that ain’t nothing to be glorified. Every time this dude gets arrested, it’s in the paper because of who he is, but he’s loving it. I ain’t no media gangster. That dude is Media Man. He is ridiculous.

Then I was in Los Angeles interviewing the Death Row posse, I was told Tupac Shakur wasn’t available to talk. But after Randy „Stretch“ Walker was killed, I felt the need to contact Shakur. What I thought would be a five-minute conversation lasted well over an hour. „Lemme get my cigarettes,“ Shakur said as he got comfortable. He was, as usual, very candid.

Did you move to Death Row for some sort of protection?

Hell, no. There’s nobody in the business strong enough to scare me. I’m with Death Row ‚cause they not scared either.

When I was in jail, Suge was the only one who used to see me. Nigga used to fly a private plane, all the way to New York, and spend time with me. He got his lawyer to look into all my cases. Suge supported me, whatever I needed. When I got out of jail, he had a private plane for me, a limo, five police officers for security. I said, „I need a house for my moms„; I got a house for my moms.

I promised him, „Suge, I’m gonna make Death Row the biggest label in the whole world. I’m gonna make it bigger than Snoop even made it.“ Not stepping on Snoop’s toes; he did a lot of work. Him, Dogg Pound, Nate Dogg, Dre, all of them-they made Death Row what it is today. I’m gonna take it to the next level.

Is it true your marriage was annulled?

Yeah. I moved too fast. I can only be committed to my work or my wife. I didn’t want to hurt her; she’s a good person. So we just took it back to where we were before.

I wanna put a rumor to rest. Did something happen to you in prison?

Kill that rumor. That got started either by some guards or by some jealous niggas. I don’t have to talk about whether or not I got raped in jail. If I wouldn’t lay down on the floor for two niggas with pistols, what the fuck make you think I would bend over for a nigga without weapons? That don’t even fit my character.

Do you or Death Row have any beef with Puffy or Biggie?

[Laughs] I don’t got no beef with nobody, man. I let the music speak for itself. If you know, you know; if you don’t, you don’t. Ain’t no mystery-niggas know what time it is.

So is this an East Coast/West Coast thing?

It’s not like I got a beef with New York or nothing, but I do have problems. And I’m representing the West Side now. There’s people disrespecting the West Coast-„It’s only gangsta shit, it ain’t creative enough, it’s fucking up the art form“-even though we made more money for this art form than all those other motherfuckers. The artists now who selling records stole our style. Listen to ‚em-Biggie is a Brooklyn nigga’s dream of being West Coast.

You used the word jealousy-

Let’s be real. Be real, Kev. Doesn’t Biggie sound like me? Is that my style coming out of his mouth? Just New York-tized. That big player shit. He’s not no player-I’m the player.

What about all the kids who look up to you and Biggie who don’t understand all this?

Regardless of all this stuff-no matter what he say, what I say-Biggie’s still my brother. He’s black. He’s my brother. We just have a conflict of interest. We have a difference of opinion.

How can we stop this disagreement before someone gets killed?

I don’t want it to be about violence. I want it to be about money. I told Suge my idea: Bad Boy make a record with all the East Coast niggas. Death Row make a record with all the West Coast niggas. We drop the records on the same day. Whoever sell the most records, that’s who the bombest. And then we stop battling. We could do pay-per-views for charity, for the community.

What about Death Row and Bad Boy doing something together?

That’s as together as we can get. For money. What about getting together as black men? We are together as black men-they over there, we over here. If we really gonna live in peace, we all can’t be in the same room. Yellow M&M’s don’t move with green M&M’s. I mean, you don’t put M&M’s peanuts with M&M’s plain. You hear me?

What about this hostility that people are feeding into? Can you and Suge and Puffy and Biggie sit down-

But that’s corny. That’s just for everybody else-they just wanna hear what the conversation is about. I know my life’s not in danger. They shouldn’t feel like they gotta worry about me. Puffy wrote me while I was in jail. I wrote him back that I don’t got no problems with him. I don’t want it to be fighting, I just wanna make my money. You can’t tell me I’ve gotta sit down and hug and kiss niggas to make everybody else feel good. If there was beef, niggas would know.

Your new album is called All Eyes on Me. Can you describe it in a phrase?

Relentless. It’s like, so-uncensored. I do not suggest that children buy this album. There’s a lot of cursing. There’s a lot of raw game that needs to be discussed in a family moment before you let them listen.

What would you suggest parents tell their kids to prepare them for it?

Explain to them that because I’m talking about it doesn’t mean that it’s okay. This comes from someone who just spent 11 and a half months in a maximum-security jail, got shot five times, and was wrongly convicted of a crime he didn’t commit. This is not from a normal person.

Do you feel that you’re a leader?

I think so. I think I’m a natural-born leader because I’m a good soldier. I know how to bow down to authority if it’s authority that I respect. If Colin Powell was president, I’d follow him.

I wanna get into politics. That’s the way for us to overcome a lot of our obstacles. Nothing can stop power or recognize power but power. If Bosnia disrespects America, they gonna go to war. ‚Cause America wants its respect. And we sit down after they recognize that they should respect America. Before we can communicate, there has to be mutual respect. And we don’t have that.

Where’s Tupac gonna be in the year 2000?

I’ll be much calmer than I am now.

Why aren’t you calm right now?

You know-how would you feel if someone violated you? I was set up. I would rather have been shot straight-up in cold blood-but to be set up? By people who you trusted? That’s bad.

Why do you think so many young black men around the country identify with you?

‚Cause we all soldiers, unfortunately. Everybody’s at war with different things. With ourselves. Some are at war with the establishment. Some of us are at war with our own communities.

What are you at war with?

Different things at different times. My own heart sometimes. There’s two niggas inside me. One wants to live in peace, and the other won’t die unless he’s free.

What about the Tupac who’s the son of a Black Panther, and Tupac the rapper?

Tupac the son of the Black Panther, and Tupac the rider. Those are the two people inside of me. My mom and them envisioned this world for us to live in, and strove to make that world. So I was raised off those ideals, to want those.

But in my own life, I saw that that world was impossible to have. It’s a world in our head. It’s a world we think about at Christmas and Thanksgiving. I had to teach my mother how to live in this world like it is today. She taught me how to live in that world that we have to strive for. And for that I’m forever grateful. She put heaven in my heart. K.P.

Me and Pac have been down from day one. Before he did Juice, before his first album. That’s my man. So the interview he did in VIBE bugged me out. But I know him. He likes to talk a lot. Especially when he’s upset, he’ll say shit that he won’t even mean. And then he’ll think about it later and be, like, „Damn, why the fuck did I say that?„

We was kinda skeptical when we was going to the studio. We was, like, Shit don’t seem right, something gonna happen. But when the four of us got to the studio and seen Little Caesar and them up in the window, it kinda threw us off. So we get around the corner and we see this nigga standing in front of the studio with an army fatigue jacket on. He sees us, looks at his watch, then looks down. There’s somebody sitting inside by the elevators lookin‘ at his newspaper. We not really paying them no mind. So they buzz us in, and the kid that was standing in front of the building comes in behind us.

We wasn’t rushing to the elevator. They had the iron out immediately. They had the drop on us real quick, and they was, like, „Y’all niggas lay down.“ We just looked at each other like we was not laying down for shit. ‚Cause when niggas tell you to lay down, you automatically think you ain’t gonna get up no more.

So Pac turns around like he about to go for his joint, ‚cause Pac was strapped. Then a shot went off, and it was, like, Oh shit. Niggas is not playing. After the shot, boom, Pac hit the floor. Me personally, I only heard one shot. I didn’t hear four, five, six shots. And he was saying that he got shot three, four times. None of us remember hearing four, five shots. When the shot went off, that’s when we went down.

Pac’s saying all this shit in the interview, like, „I thought that Stretch was gonna fight. He was towering over them.“ Now, that nigga know I ain’t never going out like no bitch. But I ain’t dumb. I ain’t got no gun, what the fuck am I supposed to do? I might be towering over niggas, but I ain’t towerin‘ over no slugs.

Tupac got shot trying to go for his shit. He tried to go for his gun, and he made a mistake on his own. But I’ll let him tell the world that. I ain’t even going to get into it all like that. Pac’s talking about niggas „dropping like a sack of potatoes.“ How the fuck is he going to know if niggas dropped like a sack of potatoes if he was turned around to get his joint? He tried to turn around and pull the joint out real quick, but niggas caught him. Grabbed his hand when it was by his waist.

When Pac was on the floor, his head was bleeding and his eyes was closed. Your man gets dropped and he falls right next to you‹that shit bug you the fuck out. The other nigga kept the joint on me and Zane, and the kid with the army fatigue jacket started takin‘ off Pac’s jewels and shit. He was calling Pac a bitch-ass nigga, kickin‘ him and shit.

After they finished robbing, they stepped out, walking backward and pointing the guns at us. I was looking at Pac, and all of a sudden his eyes opened and he said, „Yo, I’m hit.“ And Fred’s saying he’s hit too. So, boom, we go outside and Pac starts screaming for the police. We see a cop outside, rolling up real slow, but Zane got the other gun that Pac had, and we out on Times Square. So we ran back inside and got on the elevator and went upstairs. My man Fred stayed down there in front of the building, ‚cause he was hit.

In that interview, Pac was talking all that shit about Thug Life is ignorance and telling niggas‘ names and all that shit. I don’t even understand why he went there. I’ve seen Pac mad times after the shooting and he never kicked none of that shit to me. You know how he feels about the media, so why would he go and do an interview like that? He’s supposed to be a street nigga; he should’ve kept it in the street. I mean, niggas had to go and get their names changed. I want him to get a reality check. Recognize what the fuck he’s doing. Niggas on the street live by rules, man. And that rule right there, that’s a rule that’s never to be broken.

Make me wanna holler
The way they do my life

-Marvin Gaye

It was a chilly January morning when I made my way to Rikers Island for a conversation with Tupac Shakur, what would be his first words to any journalist since being shot last November 30. After passing through a series of checkpoints and metal detectors, I reached a dingy white conference room in the same building where Tupac was being held on $3 million bail. Within weeks, he’d receive a one-and-a-half- to four-and-a-half-year sentence for a sexual abuse conviction in his New York rape case. Tupac strutted into the room without a limp, in spite of having been recently wounded in the leg-among other places. Dressed in a white Adidas sweatshirt and oversized blue jeans, he seemed more alert than he had been in all our interviews and encounters. He looked me in the eyes as we spoke and smoked one Newport after another. „I’m kinda nervous,“ he admitted at one point. After a brush with death and the barrage of rumor and innuendo that followed, Tupac said he’d summoned me because „this is my last interview. If I get killed, I want people to get every drop. I want them to have the real story.“

How do you feel after everything you’ve been through these past few weeks?

Well, the first two days in prison, I had to go through what life is like when you’ve been smoking weed for as long as I have and then you stop. Emotionally, it was like I didn’t know myself. I was sitting in a room, like there was two people in the room, evil and good. That was the hardest part. After that, the weed was out of me. Then every day I started doing, like, a thousand push-ups for myself. I was reading whole books in one day, and writing, and that was putting me in a peace of mind. Then I started seeing my situation and what got me here. Even though I’m innocent of the charge they gave me, I’m not innocent in terms of the way I was acting.

Could you tell me specifically what you mean?

I’m just as guilty for not doing nothing as I am for doing things. Not with this case, but just in my life. I had a job to do and I never showed up. I was so scared of this responsibility that I was running away from it. But I see now that whether I show up for work or not, the evil forces are going to be at me. They’re going to come 100 percent, so if I don’t be 100 percent pure-hearted, I’m going to lose. And that’s why I’m losing.

When I got in here, all the prisoners was, like, „Fuck that gangsta rapper.“ I’m not a gangsta rapper. I rap about things that happen to me. I got shot five times, you know what I’m saying? People was trying to kill me. It was really real like that. I don’t see myself being special; I just see myself having more responsibilities than the next man. People look to me to do things for them, to have answers. I wasn’t having them because my brain was half dead from smoking so much weed. I’d be in my hotel room, smoking too much, drinking, going to clubs, just being numb. That was being in jail to me. I wasn’t happy at all on the streets. Nobody could say they saw me happy.

When I spoke to you a year ago, you said that if you ended up in jail, your spirit would die. You sound like you’re saying the opposite now.

That was the addict speaking. The addict knew if I went to jail, then it couldn’t live. The addict in Tupac is dead. The excuse maker in Tupac is dead. The vengeful Tupac is dead. The Tupac that would stand by and let dishonorable things happen is dead. God let me live for me to do something extremely extraordinary, and that’s what I have to do. Even if they give me the maximum sentence, that’s still my job.

Can you take us back to that night at Quad Recording Studios in Times Square?

The night of the shooting? Sure. Ron G. is a DJ out here in New York. He’s, like, „Pac, I want you to come to my house and lay this rap down for my tapes.“ I said, „All right, I’ll come for free.“ So I went to his house-me, Stretch, and a couple other homeboys. After I laid the song, I got a page from this guy Booker, telling me he wanted me to rap on Little Shawn’s record. Now, this guy I was going to charge, because I could see that they was just using me, so I said, „All right, you give me seven G’s and I’ll do the song.“ He said, „I’ve got the money. Come.“ I stopped off to get some weed, and he paged me again. „Where you at? Why you ain’t coming?“ I’m, like, „I’m coming, man, hold on.“

Did you know this guy?

I met him through some rough characters I knew. He was trying to get legitimate and all that, so I thought I was doing him a favor. But when I called him back for directions, he was, like, „I don’t have the money.“ I said, „If you don’t have the money, I’m not coming.“ He hung up the phone, then called me back: „I’m going to call [Uptown Entertainment CEO] Andre Harrell and make sure you get the money, but I’m going to give you the money out of my pocket.“ So I said, „All right, I’m on my way.“ As we’re walking up to the building, somebody screamed from up the top of the studio. It was Little Caesar, Biggie’s [the Notorious B.I.G.] sideman. That’s my homeboy. As soon as I saw him, all my concerns about the situation were relaxed.

So you’re saying that going into it…

I felt nervous because this guy knew somebody I had major beef with. I didn’t want to tell the police, but I can tell the world. Nigel had introduced me to Booker. Everybody knew I was short on money. All my shows were getting canceled. All my money from my records was going to lawyers; all the movie money was going to my family. So I was doing this type of stuff, rapping for guys and getting paid.